April 16, 2010

WHERE IS ROBIN CONNIGHAM'S C - 14 REPORT ?

[ But of course yes, one thing is certain that your recommendations to re-evaluate and re-excavate sites like Sagarahawa, the bigger mounds  south of Tilaurakot, further excavation of Ganwaria, a C - 14  or otherwise dating of Piprahawa relics ( Where is Prof. Robin Connigham, the UNESCO Heritage Evaluation Team Leader's C - 14  report, will UNESCO ever make it public ?)  and a careful  excavation of Lumbini to undo the damage  already done to the site since its discovery etc. are  important and timely.]


By B. K. Rana

We can understand why you  find this discussion (on Kapilvastu) 'nationally uploaded and tedious' as you have already published a report on it also, giving your preference to Tilaurakot,  differing from Hartel and Salomon etc.;  in which you have  drawn ideas  from  Chinese text also. ( You have all Chinese alphabets and sentences there which, we know, you can comprehend  perfectly but we do not).

We think you have not heard one of the prominent Nepalese  leaders making a fuss around that Buddha was born in Orissa ? And also the Indian encroachment of Nepalese border and construction of a barrage kind of thing (?) south of Lumbini which might eventually drown the  entire Lumbini holy site !  We feel the pain of our  motherland. You don't have to feel this pain, do you ?

Discussing those 77 sealings  K. M. Shrisvastav found around the mound of Piprahawa of which you mention " 63 refer to monastic institution and 14 to individuals" you write Tilaurakot is the historical Kapailvastu. We think this report hasn't  yet reached  the ASI  ( Archaeological Survey of India)  people yet, neither to the field nor  to New Delhi ! ?!

We had  also to labour hard to find your report down here. The Lumbini International Research Institute  LIRI has posted its title head only. May we ask LIRI to post this report online or get it digitized so that people may have a chance to read it ? Although some differing researchers do not want  to make any comment on your report saying 'enough said' and to whom you also retort  of no academic background of some kind etc. We think this report should go online.

Now coming to both Ashutosh and Sabitrajee's contribution to this new thread;  what we would say is that something has been definitely achieved in Lumbini but not enough as  expected.

The lousy Nepalese Government has no money to preserve and promote Lumbini or Kapilvastu ( Visit Lumbini and Kapilvastu program, Lumbini International Airport, accommodations and other urgent infrastructure  etc. ?) . But they have tons of money to pay 600+ some 'visibly unnecessary people' at the apex. It is also  widely feared that they are extending their term for some other unspecific time'  again  at the CA, amending the constitution which is not yet promulgated ? In such a mess  nothing can be hoped for  actually ? ( No hope they will promulgate any constitution on the time as scheduled). We  do not expect much from KTM, do we ?

But of course yes, one thing is certain that your recommendations to re-evaluate and re-excavate sites like Sagarahawa, the bigger mounds  south of Tilaurakot, further excavation of Ganwaria, a C - 14  or otherwise dating of Piprahawa relics ( Where is Prof. Robin Connigham, the UNESCO Heritage Evaluation Team Leader's C - 14  report, will UNESCO ever make it public ?)  and a careful  excavation of Lumbini to undo the damage  already done to the site since its discovery etc. are important and timely.

With best,

The Himalayan Voice Team
Cambridge, Massachusetts
United States of America
http://thehimalayanvoice.blogspot.com/

On Fri, Apr 16, 2010 at 7:35 AM, Max Deeg wrote:

Dear Mr. Shrivastav,

As a regular visiting scholar in Lumbini I have to disagree with your harsh judgement (which may be understandable from a standpoint of frustration). It is certainly not perfect what has been done in Lumbini - and there is more to be done - but the monastic, (up to now small) scholarly and commercial community have done quite a lot since I have arrived there first in 2000. What is your argument - should someone claim Kusinagara because it has not the perfect state of development one expects from the place of the Parinirvana of the Buddha? I have to say that I find these national(ist) or at least nationally uploaded debates about religious and scholarly issues, to say the least, tedious. As I said: it is not a perfect state, but the fact that, for instance, archaeological excavation in Tilaurakot has been taken up again is, especially in the present political situation of instability, a positive sign. We probably agree on the point that things first have to be sorted out in KTM (not least to clear issues with India which is polluting the place by building more and more cement factories in the area) before places like Lumbini can really benefit.

Best Regards,

Max Deeg
Prof. Max Deeg
Head of School
School of Religious and Theological Studies
Cardiff University
Cardiff, Wales, UK

Date:     15/04/2010 22:58

Subject: Re: Why is Lumbini a Dark Village?

Unrelated to this controversy, why is the Birth Place of Lord Buddha not a developed territory?  Not sure how many people have visited Lumbini, but no one really expressed an interest to develop it.  Few years back when I visited, there wasn't even electricity or water supply.  Corrupt Nepal government treated it as an "unwanted gift".  What do you expect?  Someone will steal it!
 
Sincerely,
 
Ashutosh Shrivastav


On Fri, Apr 16, 2010 at 8:13 AM, Ashutosh Shrivastav wrote:

Dear Prof Deeg:

I visited Lumbini in 1999, right before you landed there for the first time in 2000.  It's been a decade so the place may have changed.  I am not sure but I am quite doubtful of any development.  My point was: Why people around the world know who Lord Buddha (collectively Buddhism) is but only a small percentage in the pie know where he was born.  It is interesting to watch the expression of people's face when you utter the words like Nepal or Lumbini.  First question will be: What is that?

Lumbini is a Treasure Trove for Nepal government.  Shouldn't Nepal preserve this important gift?  We should be thankful that it wasn't snatched in the Treaty of Sagauli signed between British Bharat and Nepal.  It could have been taken away as well.

Nepal has to overcome the problem of centralization.  All the places, small or big, must be proportionately developed.  Lumbini is nothing more than a victim of this centralized thought.  Given a choice between Kathmandu, Pokhara, Butwal, Biratnagar, Birgunj, Nepalgunj, Lumbini...which one would most people pick for primary residence?   Lumbini may come last in the list despite the place being the birth place of "peace" messenger. The reason is quite known. If we really care about Lord Buddha, then we must preserve his heritage as well.  It is the duty of Nepal and Nepalese to introduce this small dark village to the entire world. Until we do this, many Lumbinis will be born in many corners of the world.

Sincerely,

Ashutosh Shrivastav
www.unnepal.org

On Fri, Apr 16, 2010 at 10:49 AM, Sabitra Kaphle wrote:

Dear Max,

I agree with your points. I have recently been to Lumbini. I personally feel Lumbini as a place of peace without discrimination. I have been hearing the debates. I asked myself many times why it is the matter of debate. There is no doubt that the Lumbini is the birth place of Buddha. I think the point raised here is the matter of taking advantage of the political instability and developmental retardation of Nepal. I do agree that Nepal is not making the progress in development at this stage due to various political hindrances. However, it does not mean that the national heritage of the country are neglected. I personally not agree that Lumbini is a dark village. It is the place of enlightening your mind, body and thoughts. It has to come from the heart which enlightens your ideology.
Regarding the darkness, we need to work to get through the darkness so we could spray the beams into the each corner. In Nepal, there are many villages have no access to transport, safe water, communication, services......so on. Comparing this, Lumbini is far more advantaged. Nepal is striving towards the equality...I hope so in some years. My appeal to you all is work together to enlightens the life of all people, as Budhha said to us.
Regards,

Sabitra

Sabitra Kaphle
Research Higher Degree Student
Southgate Institute for Health, Society and Equity
Flinders University
Level 2, Health Sciences Building
GPO Box 2100
Adelaide SA 5001
Phone: +61 8 7221 8459
Fax: +61 8 7221 8424
Email: sabitrakaphle@gmail.com